m-TequilaSunrise...

After reading so many post on protecting the Fatwa side, commenting on girls dressing code, we wear pants therefore that made us lesbo...?

I've posted up my discomfort in one of the lesbian forums... and from the feedback I'm getting is simply thought provoking...

I have to warn u tho. it'll be a long long post as their feedback on this is super duper long...

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Feedback 1,
No matter what religion a person hold in their heart, others should respect the way religion is. To condemn others religions or anything related to it is rude. You want to help, help it with understanding and not with "stupidity" words.

Most Malay gave extreme response because fatwa issued are mainly meant to them. To non-muslim, it just a side hit. Most of them don't even feel any different.

It's a like a fire bomb throw directly to a group. Of course, whoever in the group will jump here n there. Whereas, others who are looking from distance, will only shake their head.
This scenario explain ur statement "do u realise that only the malays had so much to say and the chinese seems to have their head shaking towards this scenario? haha!"


Bottom line is, respect. Respect your own and respect others as well.

Tho' we are GLBT.. doesn't mean we are not-religious enough to understand what is respect.

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Feedback 2,
It wasn't about condemning the religion. We were condemning the authority and the people involved in making the decision in the National Fatwa Council - note that there aren't any women in said council - who are abusing their powers over their religion under the mask of righteousness when it is, in reality, discrimination towards women and the pengkids/tomboys.

The words "Fatwas are stupid", etc. were poorly worded - that led to people misunderstanding that the protest in general was an attack against the fatwas and thus Islam which caused all the Muslims to be up in arms about it. It's not about the religion.

Being part of the LGBT community doesn't necessarily mean most of us are non-religious, though... but I digress.

The implementation of this one fatwa re: pengkids and tomboys (and I must emphasise, the emphasis on this fatwa and NOT fatwas in general nor the religion...) is a clear example of oppression. The issue and problem here is that these people, these members of the authority - are using religion to discriminate.

Members of the LGBT community are dealing with enough flak as is - the Mak Nyahs, transgenders, gay men. And now, the hate, prejudice and discrimination towards pengkids, tomboys and of course, indirectly, lesbians is going to skyrocket thanks to any kind of ruling that would discriminate so much against one's identity and self-expression.

Another main problem is that a relatively masculine gender identity/self-expression via clothes and the like does not equal homosexuality. Tomboys aren't necessarily lesbians, and similarly, feminine women aren't necessarily heterosexual.

The other issue at hand here is that... who decides where to draw the line at masculinity and femininity, and why should these people be allowed to dictate where that line lies? Because it's wholly subjective; and just another way to tell women the way to dress, and behave. Again, control over women.

Lesbians face discrimination. This is discrimination. Dressings and mannerisms of women should not be regulated, along with consensual relationships between adults. Particularly the first, since we know homosexuality is frowned upon by religion in general and of course, hardly advocated.

When the fatwa is fully implemented and becomes a part of the cold, hard law - tomboys and pengkids are going to be considered criminals. It is not that we are questioning their religious authority on the issue, when you get down to it, since they do have their reasons for having discussed and brought the fatwa up for consideration. These reasons just haven't been communicated to the public; people are in such an uproar over it because it seems shallow, but that's only because we don't know what they were really discussing when they came up with the said fatwa.

But when we know that tomboys and pengkids are not criminals, and that it's hardly a social ill - how can we just sit back and let this slide? This fatwa affects all of us in more ways than one. It's just that you don't need to be a Muslim to realise that this is still discrimination - in its purest form, against the LGBT community, targeting the pengkids/lesbians, now.

Also - People don't attempt to understand. They don't try to delve into understanding the pengkids, what goes on around the pengkids, and trying to perhaps fathom their reasons and why they express themselves that way. When you think about it, if they were to try to do so instead of just blatantly forcing these rules on women - well, what will result from that?

Assuming that is how it goes... At the end of the day, the tomboys don their dresses. Grow out their spiked, gelled hair. Drop and discard the identity they've adopted that gave them so much self-confidence over the years - into becoming someone else entirely. A softer, feminine echo of who they used to be.

Everybody's happy, and this question is never raised again.

Or IS everybody?

Is that really who they are?

How about the tomboys who weren't homosexual, who merely... like short hair? Who're happily married, with children - who like suits and ties? Wrongly prosecuted and shunned, because of the unnecessary discrimination wrought about by the misunderstanding that a woman's appearance determines her sexual orientation.

The tomboys are trapped within a cage - a shell of their former selves.

You can force a lesbian woman to marry men, to bear his children. To raise a typical nuclear family in our growing world, and have everything be alright.

But it will not be alright.You can't change what a woman feels inside, her identity, her being. You can dress her up any way you want, but at the end of the day, you're suppressing her means of expressing herself and to love whom she wants to love.

I'll quote:"Each and every woman has the right to express herself freely, as does everyone else, as guaranteed under human rights standards our country is bound to fulfill."

We have our rights. The Malays are vocal about it, but that doesn't mean the Chinese and Indians shouldn't lend support to our sisters that we care about whom are affected dearly. Why should they fight their battle alone when it's more than just something about Muslim women, and how it's a question of rights as a whole?

My 20 sen, or so.

But I'm reiterating that the protest was not against all fatwas - just those aiming to control women and how they should conform to the 'ideal' stereotype of the senior religious authority figures, and how they should behave and dress. And that it's not about disrespect towards a religion. :/ I hope I got that semi-cleared despite my not being too articulate about the issue - to which I apologise in advance.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, especially since I'm just another person in the ocean of people contributing yet another relatively insignificant opinion to the discussion.

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Feedback 3,
Hi - I was part of the protest and here are some points i'd like to raise

1st) muslim issue?

one criticism we faced was that this looked like a bunch of non-muslim protestors sticking their noses where they had no business to.
i will like to address this in 2 parts

first, that it was not a matter of who we were, or what our denominations were. in the issue of representation, i think the front we had was that we were all united against the fatwa based on its discrimination against women.

second, that just because it is a fatwa does not mean the society as a whole does not feel its repercussions. i dislike using personal examples, but perhaps the clearest one is that i used to date a muslim, and i might again - that it legally does not involve our selves on an immediate level does not mean we do not live with the side effects.
that i am not a muslim does not mean i cannot voice out against what i see as an injustice.

2nd) disrespecting god.

no. to challenge a fatwa is to challenge a human interpretation of the quran's teachings. this is very different from saying "do not worship god", unless the fatwa council is the personification of god.

3rd) "stupid fatwas everywhere"

i agree that when trying to communicate an idea (against discrimination), taking on such an aggressive stance can (and did) alienate some of the crowd that we were trying to reach out to.

essentially i think it sounds like we dismissed all fatwas, but that's only in isolated view of the slogan. if you take into account the recent fatwa topics re: yogas as well, you can see where we got it from.

we also had other slogans, but perhaps not as sensational and therefore not as widely reported. still, to say we are disrespecting islam by dismissing the intelligence of a fatwa is a bit of a stretch. the emphasis still is - the fatwa is problematic.

4th) what the qaran says

the qaran does not actually explicitly state that lesbianism is wrong - if you check the sura that has been quoted, what it refers to is "lewdness".
You are free to interpret if "lewdness" simply means

1) the act of fornication
2) the act of adultery
or
3) the act of fornication, between two women.
now the 3rd interpretation is frequently assume because of two factors. the frequent drumming in that homosexuality is "unnatural" - which is not the only view in islamic discourse, but certainly the predominant one.
[ see 'islam recognises homosexuality' http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/03/27/islam-039recognizes- homosexuality039.html where it argues if sexuality is created by god, its manifestations can't then be unnatural, and the interpretation unfairly takes societal prejudices against a minority ]

the second is that in the punishment prescribed for acts of "lewdness" only talk about how the women should be punished, whereas it is questionable that if men were involved in the act of "lewdness", why weren't their punishments listed out too?

i can't say i'm anything close to a religious scholar, but i will be meeting one soon to discuss this further with him.

What the qaran does say, is that women should cover up their aurat, ie: dress a certain way. there are arguments for and against this.

5th) Reason for strong reaction to the fatwa

to make our disagreement very, very public.

really, people. what's keeping quiet going to do except to allow a legislation that disempowers women to go through?

to presume that the religious authorities will leave you alone or not arrest you because it is too ridiculous to detain you based on your appearance, whether you're sitting at the mamak, or just shopping disregards a very simple thing: this is exactly how the trans community suffers, especially the male-to-female ones.

they are harassed, detained, fined - based on their appearance.

6th) fatwas totally boleh dicabar.

there is a history of fatwas being retracted, or changed - by the very scholar that issues them in the first place.

although msia legally requires malays and muslims to be Sunni muslims, Islam in itself is a religion with a rich history of diversity, in philosophy, debates, etc.
one of the differences about msia is that our fatwas can be gazetted into laws.

the usual practice for fatwas, is that they are religious advice. you are free to keep seeking advice, or fatwa, until you find one that suits you. the system is one where you ARE supposed to think for yourself if the fatwa is suitable for you.

Islam has never been about handfeeding information to you. that's why it's the book you can never finish studying. there is a great deal of discourse and intellectualism that i feel goes hand in hand with the religion, but that is not encouraged in msia if it goes against what the authorities want.

to say that the fatwa cannot be challenged is to say that the people issuing it are perfect - in the understanding of what god is saying through the qaran, in what is best for EVERYBODY - and i say this because in msia, you can't seek fatwas that are better for you.

this is not a mechanism built in for you to escape qaranic teachings - this is simply an acknowledgement that not one fatwa is suitable for everybody.

sigh. this was typed in a rush. i have bucketloads of deadlines tonight. if there's anything anyone wants to clarified, let me know.
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